The Art of Coaching: A New Perspective on Leadership

Ever wondered how some managers consistently lead their teams to achieve unprecedented success? Keith Rosen, CEO of Profit Builders, joins us to share the secret: mastering the language of coaching. You'll learn how coaching transcends traditional problem-solving, fostering new possibilities and cultivating accountability within your team. Whether you're leading a sales team or running clinical operations, this session gives you tools to aid your employees in developing critical thinking skills, enabling them to become self-reliant problem solvers.

But not all coaching is created equal. The one-size-fits-all approach is a trap that many managers fall into, leading to inefficiencies and disconnection within the team. Keith helps us navigate around this pitfall, discussing the importance of understanding each individual’s unique coaching style, motivation, and accountability methods. Moreover, we delve into the role of confidence in leadership and its direct correlation to sales performance. If you've ever been in a sales slump, this information is a game-changer that will help you intentionally cultivate confidence.

Through this conversation, we hope to have provided insights that will guide you in transforming your leadership style and, ultimately, your team's performance. Join us on the CHAPcast for more empowering conversations like this.

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Transcript

Jennifer: 0:09

Hi there, I'm Jennifer Kennedy, the lead for Quality at CHAP, and welcome to this month's CHAPcast. I'm here with Keith Rosen, the CEO of Profit Builders, named one of the best leadership coaching organizations worldwide. Since 1989, keith has coached over 3 million managers and salespeople on six continents in over 75 countries. He's the author of Own your Day Coaching Sales People into Sales Champions, the number one best-selling sales management coaching book on Amazon, and Sales Leadership, which was named Amazon's 2018 Sales Leadership Book of the Year. He was also named one of the most influential coaches by Inc Magazine and Fast Company. Keith, it's a pleasure to have you on our CHAPcast today. Thanks for joining us. Oh, thank you for having me. Also joining the podcast is my colleague and compadre, cassie Ellison. She's CHAP's VP for growth consulting. Hi Chapp, hi Cassie. Welcome to CHAPcast. Is there anything else you would like our listeners to know about what you do?

Keith: 1:26

at CHAP. Hi, thank you so much for having me today. I am just so excited to be here as the vice president of growth consulting. I will say that I have read Keith's books, I have followed his coaching advice and I just think there's so much value in the conversation we're going to have today. It's going to really resonate with the challenges of sales leadership and coaching. So thank you for having me.

Jennifer: 1:48

Well, I'm so glad you're here from CHAP with that representing that arm. I this is not my swimming pool, I am a longtime clinician. I have my nurse sweatshirt on today, so I know the clinical operations side of the business. But I do understand that the sales piece which is part of the operations. I understand the importance of that. We're setting the tone, essentially the first contact many times for representing the company. So that's really important and I think you know, we know that it's really changing an uncertain landscape and healthcare today. We know that sales leaders are really busy. But, keith, I guess my question to you is, with all that sort of uncertainty and change and chaos that is happening in the healthcare continuum, what happens to coaching in that to-do list for a sales manager rather than go out sell, sell, sell? I would think the leadership piece of that, which is coaching and mentorship, really is a huge piece to developing that sales team in order to be that wonderful first representation to outside of the company.

Kassi: 3:17

Especially now. What I find and it seems to be a global conundrum is that I always find it very interesting that at the end of every month or the end of every quarter that's when everyone's scrambling to close deals and managers say, keith, I don't have time to coach. And when I hear that, my first visceral reaction is you don't know what coaching is. So when leaders today which they're extremely busy, ceo confidence and sales management confidence is at an all-time low, 76 to 84% of all issues are a result of faulty communication. Because of this, managers are actually losing one full day each week as a result of faulty communication, which financially results in about $12,000 of a cost per each member on their team. So there's all this uncertainty and change on top of the fact that managers and leaders have never been trained, mostly had a coach. Forget about coaching in a remote or a hybrid world. So when managers say we're too busy to coach, they think coaching is something you do. No, it's who you are and it's how you show up. I don't change the way I show up every day. It's who I am. So when managers say I'm too busy to coach, it's like saying, well, I'm too busy to breathe, because coaching is simply a language. Look at sales. Look at your best salespeople. They're probably the strongest communicators, just like your leaders they're probably your best. Leaders are probably the strongest communicators. Down to why leaders are not engaging with coaching, it's because they don't have the language of leadership. So what I find is when managers tell me oh, keith, we want our people to coach, 70% of the time no, coaching is something you do because it's simply a language. So, just like if we're learning Spanish or Italian or Uruguay or any language, managers and salespeople need to learn the language of coaching because that's what people need today.

Kassi: 5:51

And three years ago to today, the landscape of course of selling has changed. As a matter of fact this is a scary statistic 76% of all companies since the pandemic have changed the way they buy. So Kierman has changed. Number of decision makers have changed, factors they use to make decisions have changed, but only 17% of companies change the way they sell. That's a major disparity right there, because if you're still managing coaching and selling the way you were pre-pandemic, you already set up the failure. The rules are different. I just share it. Some statistics which we never dealt with before. Attrition is at an all-time high. Interestingly, in certain industries it's even higher. So when it comes to managers telling me they don't have time to coach, it's because they don't understand that coaching is just simply the way you come across.

Jennifer: 6:58

So, while you're talking here, I hear you about attrition, I hear you about the need to do that, but I'm really interested in generational differences, how the boomers respond, communication what their needs are to, all the way up to our newest generation, our zeers. When you look particularly at millennials, they need that. When you read any kind of literature out there, that's really. It's not just money. They want to be part of the fabric of the organization. For many different reasons, for diversity reasons, but one of the big things the standouts is that they want to be mentors, they want to be coached. It's an expectation for them of that generation. So what you're saying, I feel aligns yes, things have changed, but it's changing with generational needs. Would you have anything to say about that? Disagree, agree, tell me, I'm out of my mind, or what? No?

Kassi: 8:07

no, no, I would never say that unless we were offline. Jennifer, there you go. You brought up two really important facts. I want to touch on a strategic tool that every leader and every salespeople can use today, but also to the point of what you were saying about generational gaps. If anyone goes and does research online, money is never the number one anymore. Out of the top five, money's like number four, maybe five.

Kassi: 8:39

What people want today is they wanna be connected, they wanna be part of something. They wanna be able to contribute, they wanna have a cause, they wanna have a passion, they wanna know they're making an impact. That's what people want today. So then, how do managers coach to that when they're sure used to running around and saying you know your target right, you know your target right, you know how much you have to close right. That doesn't do anything but just annoy your direct reports. It's not helping them grow. So what's a way to help people grow, regardless of generational gaps?

Kassi: 9:18

The one thing about coaching is that it's agnostic. Well, at least my approach is, so if someone approaches me, I'm gonna share what I call the one minute coaching strategy. As a matter of fact, I can probably do it in 30 seconds, so let's put our timer on. Someone comes to you looking for help. You have two choices you could be the chief problem solver, you give them the answer, or you can ask a question, and the question is very simple. Hey, jennifer, thanks for coming to me. I really appreciate that. However, you're much closer to this situation than I am and I trust you and I trust your judgment.

Kassi: 10:04

So what's your opinion on how to move forward and achieve the results you want? Now? I'm from New York, I talk pretty fast and that was under 30 seconds. You can use that strategy with anyone because, think about it, we're acknowledging the fact. Yes, I will share my idea. Number two you're acknowledging the fact that they're closer to the situation than you are. You're also letting them know that I trust you, I trust your judgment. What do you think that's going to do to their confidence and also the relationship they're gonna have with their manager?

Kassi: 10:44

And since we're talking about leadership and sales being a precise language, notice the final question I asked. I asked what's your opinion on how to achieve this? I don't ask what result? How are you gonna achieve this result? I don't ask what's your strategy. I don't ask what's your solution or answer, because strategies, answers and solutions can be right or wrong. Opinions are never right or wrong and everyone has one. So no one can come to you and say, well, I don't know, you don't know your own opinion. So it provides the opportunity for the coach to hear what the coach is sharing and create that coaching moment for that.

Jennifer: 11:35

I love that. Cassie, I know that you're working in our growth solutions section of CHAP and it sounds to me, given what Keith has said, you're not or we are, as CHAP, not being prescriptive about what we're doing, but sounds like there's wonderful coaching opportunity for our customers who are interested in growth solutions. What are your thoughts on that?

Keith: 12:03

Absolutely, I think. Kind of going back to sales leaders being extremely busy, that is 100% true, I think, in healthcare in general. Let me back up I was in healthcare sales for 15 years before coming to CHAP and in various sales leader roles and as a sales representative myself. There's just been changes with the high costs of staffing these days, in the same reimbursements, you're seeing that organizations are starting to invest less in sales leadership, meaning sales leaders have sometimes even double the direct reports than they did previously. And so it is a challenge being extremely busy to keep up with the administrative side of things, the strategic planning side of things, but, most importantly, your people. Without your people, you don't have anything, and so that's the thing that we coach to. A lot is how can we really manage our week with intention? So not letting your week run you, but you running your week and knowing that in order to win, I mean you have to connect with your team. You have to get out there in the field and have those coaching opportunities and build that trust with your team. So when they do need coaching, they'll come to you because they trust you. They trust that they can come to their leader and work through things as they occur. So I do see that we're working with an organization right now that they're getting creative on how they can layer in more sales leadership and starting with a level one of peer mentorship. So I think really getting creative on having the adequate number of people to do effective coaching is key for winning in sales today.

Keith: 13:53

I do wanna comment on chief problem solver. When you mentioned that, keith, reading your book years ago as an early leader myself, I will admit I was a chief problem solver. If you had a problem I had the answer and I was so excited to give the answer. But what I found was that I kinda created a co-dependency problem. Right, my phone was ringing a lot because everybody needed help to solve the various problems about their day. So, adopting the coaching that in your book the 67th second coaching and really having those conversations with your team, I just saw such a difference and it's the right thing to do. It's to grow leaders, it's to grow your team professionally and how to problem solve and get them confident in their selves to be able to feel good about making decisions, as they have different things that occur throughout their day. So we see this a lot with the growth solutions and we do a lot of sales leadership coaching and training and how to effectively manage your week to be able to manage all parts of sales leadership.

Kassi: 15:08

Cassie, that was a really good point you brought up and I'd like to expand on that, because being a chief problem solver truly is a global conundrum. There's not a manager I know out there who, when someone approaches them, the visceral reaction is to solve the problem. Managers are like heat seeking missiles they love looking for problems and they love solving problems. As a matter of fact, I've seen countless job descriptions that actually say good problem solver, but it doesn't say good coach. Well, wait a second, who's doing the work when you're coaching? If the manager is doing all the work, that's not coaching. Coaching is about leading with questions, not leading with answers, and I think we need to take a moment here, and even the playing field, about what a simple definition of coaching even is, because if you go throughout an organization, I can tell you right now there is no commonality in a definition of what coaching is. So, rather than share a long academic definition, here's the definition of coaching it's the art and language of creating new possibilities. So now take that definition and for every manager, every people, leader, think about the conversations you're having. If you're having redundant conversations, well, you're certainly not creating a new possibility. If you leave that conversation with a new possibility, new ideas, new approaches that you've collaborated on with your coachee. That's a good sign that you're doing some really good coaching. And a couple of other points to really nail down.

Kassi: 16:59

The cost of being a chief problem solver is that, even though managers are coming from a good place, consider how the coachee is dealing. Now, don't get me wrong. Some of your people are gonna be really happy. This is great. I go to my manager. They give me the answer, and the best part about it is, if the answer doesn't work, it's their fault. We actually rob people of the very accountability we're looking to build. It's insane. So consider this every time you give an answer.

Kassi: 17:33

While there are some people that want that from their manager, there are other people that truly want to be coached and they understand that coachee is going to help them develop. And when a manager gives them an answer, what they don't see or what they don't hear is that coachee thinking well, gee, my manager didn't even, they didn't even ask my opinion. I guess they don't trust me. I guess they don't think I can do my job. Now you tell me. What's that going to do to someone's confidence? It's gonna absolutely destroy it. And if that's not enough of a cost for those managers that see themselves adopting more employees on their team. Remember this one thing If it's one case for coaching, it's this you can't scale dependency. You can't scale it.

Jennifer: 18:41

You know, keith, I'm listening to all this and I'm like, yeah, this is totally applicable to the other, you know, to the operations of the organization, clinical. All of that because I think there is failure to coach clinicians as well. You know directors, managers, on sort of that side of the house of the total operations as well. You know, in my 38 years as a nurse, lately it seems to me like there seems to be lack of critical thinking on the clinician side. Right, but you know what, maybe it's there and it's not being coached out, maybe.

Jennifer: 19:26

Maybe I'm not saying that's the case for everything. And you know, on the clinical side you have to sometimes say the regs say this, this is what we have to do, but I think there's more room to help clinicians and folks that are involved in that piece to draw out what they know is to help them grow. And I think, exactly, there's a lot of problem solving happening on that side of the fence in an organization as well. And we have to, as you mentioned, you have to make time for it or we're not gonna keep those millennials, the Gen Zers, the, whatever the next generation is gonna be called after that, we're not gonna keep them engaged and keep them happy in an organization if managers now and moving forward don't develop that skill?

Kassi: 20:25

Absolutely, as a matter of fact. Again, it's one thing to chat about these things that truly will make a difference in the impact and performance of people. At the same time, though, I've seen some statistics where what was it Recently just saw one that was really scary Only one in five employees say they actually see a future at their organization.

Jennifer: 20:56

Wow, that's pretty low. That's scary.

Kassi: 20:59

So, to me, companies, they throw more tools. They maybe throw more incentives. That's not the answer. What people really, really, really want is to help grow, but not only the company, but support their customers. And I know this might hit people I don't know, I'm gonna say maybe in a different way but the dominant strategy for sales and for leadership is care. That's what people want today. We have never been in a situation where we have so much exposure into people's lives than we do now. After all, I'm in my office. You guys are in your office, you're home. When I'm speaking to my clients, when I'm doing a video call, I'm in my client's home, whether it's in their if they have a home office or in their kitchen or wherever they're conducting the meeting. But I'm in their home, I'm in their office. That's such an opportunity to connect with people at a deeper level and change those conversations not just from a business conversation but to a personal conversation. Because consider this for those people and there are many, many that are still struggling out there so are your clients.

Jennifer: 22:27

They're people too, will you say struggling man. It is a competitive landscape out there and I wouldn't want to be a salesperson going out there to get your foot in the door have those conversations. How do you keep those folks that are out there every day, knocking on doors, trying to have conversations, motivated, confident, etc. How does one do that?

Kassi: 22:59

One thing I find and I don't know if I should have taught my kids this when they were very younger, but I said the one word you really, really want to get comfortable with for the rest of your life is no. So over the years they use that against me. I'll say no, and of course they give them a mom. Then mom says no, and of course I'm the softy, so then of course I'll say yes. When it comes to the struggles that salespeople are going out there and so much pressure, how do they mean their focus? How do they keep their confidence? There's several things. Number one and this is more of a self-assessment for everyone is do you have a personal vision? Do you have your core values laid out? Do you know what your specific goals are? Do you know what your intrinsic motivation is? When we have our core vision in front, that becomes our North Star, that becomes our guiding light. The one thing and this is really the responsibility of the manager is that there is a skill that I teach called enrollment. I want you to consider if, in vision, in my left hand I'm holding the companies and the individual contributors, business objectives, in the right hand I'm holding their personal goals. Imagine if you're able to align each person's personal goals with their business objectives. Now there's alignment. Now that individual is thinking, oh well, if I achieve this in my job, I'll achieve this personally. Most managers don't connect it because enrollment is a learned skill. Part of what I see with what great managers are doing, it's not just creating a vision statement for the company and putting it on a wall. That was designed by marketing. Of course, no offense to marketing. They do wonderful work. Except if we want people to truly own something, it doesn't matter if someone else creates it. What we create, we own. What we create we act on. If someone is creating their own vision, identifying their core values, identifying what their goals are, that keeps them honest. It keeps them in that same lane.

Kassi: 25:41

When we're talking about a sales slum, how do you keep people engaged and confident? Well, does the manager have any idea what motivates each individual on their team? I will go so far and please feel free to anyone to challenge me on this, but the majority of managers have no clue what their people want, what they're motivated by, how they're like to be held accountable, how they like to be inspired. They don't know that. So what do they do. They make assumptions. So one of the leading cause of lost sales, strained relationships, turnover is assumptions, because either we're assuming or we're assessing.

Kassi: 26:32

And since we're talking about some traps that managers fall into, one of the greatest traps I see is they manage or coach in their own image. So, for example, if I'm not taking the time to uncover how you like to be coached, motivated, held accountable, what am I gonna do? Well, I'm gonna think well, gee, this is how I like to be motivated, inspired and held accountable, so I'll assume that's how you like to be motivated and held accountable as well. And then we wonder why people are leaving, or even managers saying to me gee, you know, I like to be managed in a very direct way, but when I do it to my team, some of them have cried.

Kassi: 27:15

That should be a good sign, and this is the opportunity to have conversations and sit down and talk about what motivates you, what gets you out of bed every day, what inspires you, what are the things you'd like to do more of at home? How good are you with turning off work at the end of the day? How good are you at managing your self-care? How well are you taking care of yourself. How do you stay focused on your priorities while balancing the performance you have at work? See, these are the questions no manager is asking because they're much more personal. Well, keep those personal questions.

Jennifer: 27:56

Yes, they are, because the dominant strategy today is care Everyone is going through something I love that it's, you know, from a nursing standpoint, that's me creating an individualized plan of care for my patient and Cassie. I'm thinking you know, part of what we're doing in Gross Solution is helping the customers who engage with us to really look at that landscape of their staff and figure those things out. Is that fair to say?

Keith: 28:29

Absolutely, I will say. A lot of organizations that we talk to, we have discovery calls and we learn how you know they lead their sales team and kind of what is their cadence or recipe for success. And oftentimes we hear, well, we assign a quota and a territory and they go and it's about get out there, make the sales calls, you know what your number is and that's it. So a large part of what we're seeing is, you know, all those things that Keith just talked to can be worked into a weekly cadence. And again, I go back to just being very intentional in coaching your people and connecting with your people for that dominance of care and so that definitely is something that we talk to a lot of organizations about is how do you balance everything and ensure that you're investing in your team?

Keith: 29:20

And I will say, keith, you mentioned the enroll step. That is, so many leaders make assumptions about their sales team and what motivates them, and when you I challenge them to have an enroll conversation, they always walk away learning something new about their person and you will find you've made assumptions about these folks that just are not correct. And so such a such a key step in engaging someone into owning their goal and their plan to win in their territory. So such an important part of this step.

Kassi: 29:58

I'm a big fan. It's interesting because managers are really good at telling people what they need to do, but they're not very good at sharing why. And the most important part of that conversation, which is what's in it for you with them WIFM, right, what's in it for me? So the point is, if a manager shares a new initiative or something you have to do, they could play the power card and their people will say, well, I guess I want to keep my job, so I'll. I guess I'll do this thing. But keep in mind something If you truly want to create engagement and alignment, remember something, and this applies to every conversation when your intentions are not clear, people default to fear. So if I'm a manager and I send you an email and in the email subsequent it says call me ASAP, what's your first reaction? It's not. My boss wants to tell me how amazing I am. It's going to be uh-oh. What did I do wrong? Did I lose a sale? Am I getting terminated? Am I being put on a pit? We never go to the positive. That's why it's so critical for everyone to always be clear that when you're sharing or trying to create buy-in or enrollment or change, you must share what's in it for them and what the intent is. You also mentioned I don't want to step over anything here you mentioned about critical thinking. Critical thinking when people hear that they think it's all about helping them formulate decisions in their mind, become a more either divergent or convergent thinker. But what they, what people don't realize, is that critical thinking isn't only working from your head, it's also listening to your heart and to me, that's where the best leaders are coaching from. It's from their heart, not from their head. And if there's one thing I also don't want to step over is confidence, because this is one of the things that I see everyone is struggling today and I've been asked so many times. Keith, you know I am my people falling into a sales slump. So when, two minutes, I'm going to share how to eliminate a sales slump.

Kassi: 32:19

If you look at how people develop their confidence, most people will say well, my confidence goes up when I achieve something. So if we take a sales person, for example, well, here's my confidence. I earn a new client. What happens to my confidence? It goes up, my confidence rises, I'm feeling good, I'm feeling productive, I'm feeling connected to what I'm doing and to my people. Wow, what happens? I sell another deal, uh-oh, I just lost a big account. What do you think happens to my confidence? It drops. And then my confidence drops. I'm not assures myself. Well, then I have another conversation and then I lose another opportunity.

Kassi: 33:02

If anyone wants to know of the cause of a sales slump, it's tied directly into confidence. And let me be exceedingly clear. You have been lied to your entire life. You have been told that confidence is a result of results. Well, what if I was to tell you that confidence has no relationship to results anymore?

Kassi: 33:27

One of my favorite quotes is by a philosopher, haifetz, a Persian philosopher, and the quote is I am happy before I have a reason. If we are allowing external factors to dictate our internal condition, you will always find yourself, your condition internally, your internal power, your internal energy, being robbed by external situations. Oh, once I hit my quota, I'll be happy. For how long? A day, a week, a second, and then the counter resets to zero. So this is the inner game. You know we've talked about what we can do to help our people develop, our clients develop. What about the go-be? How can we help coach people in the inner game? Confidence is just a choice. There is no more relationship between confidence and results. So consider this I am confident because I'm confident. I am confident because I have already proven myself and my self-worth. That does not mean you're not going to still strive for excellence. It just means that those results have no reflection on who you are and the quality that you bring to others.

Jennifer: 35:02

Wow, that is such a great I don't even know how to top that. I think you know, I think that's so applicable not only to sales but, you know, to whatever a person does in the organization, and I totally agree with that. Wow, there are so many pearls of wisdom that I'll be taking away from our conversation today, and I wanted to thank you again, keith and Cassie, for joining the podcast. So, each of you. Any final thoughts for our listeners out there in podcast land.

Kassi: 35:40

Cassie, I'll turn the mic over to you first before I share Wonderful.

Keith: 35:46

Well, I just I really hope this is helpful to our listeners. In talking to a lot of clients, it sounds like this is just an ongoing challenge of really finding the time to coach effectively with our sales team to reduce retention, increase performance. So I hope there's some nuggets everybody can take away from this call today, and if you haven't read Keith Rosen's books, I highly recommend them.

Kassi: 36:15

Jen, do you have anything you want to sign off before I say goodbye?

Jennifer: 36:19

I, you know, like I have so many things that I'm taking away from here. You know, one of the things that really struck me after all these years you think you know stuff, right Is that there's a piece everyone in the organization has a sales role, really, right? You know, I'm recruiting somebody, I'm selling the organization. I'm out there, I'm a clinician, I'm selling the organization. So that was a realization for me that it's not like the siloed thing, it permeates throughout the organization.

Kassi: 36:53

Oh, I'm sorry, Now I have to comment on that. So you bring up silos. I'll be really quick. You want to know every real secret to breaking down departmental silos. Respect other people's point of view, that's the answer. Because if I'm in sales and I need to give something to a clinician and they said they wanted it, you know immediately I'm running over to marketing and saying, hey, I need you to produce this for me. But you know what we're not doing? We're not respecting them, we're not respecting their time, we're not respecting that. There are other things on their plate. So what if we turn that model around? And what if we say, hey, I'd love to redesign our relationship of how our departments work together so we can achieve our mutual goals? That's creating new possibilities. So I just wanted to share that Number one. Number two when everyone is speaking coaching, that's how you develop a coaching culture. If every department is speaking coaching, if my direct report is speaking coaching my salespeople yes, they're coaching customers. That's the evolution. If my boss is speaking coaching, we're all aligned and connected. That's the secret to developing a coaching culture In terms of a couple of things that I'd like to share, just to wrap up from my end.

Kassi: 38:11

For those of you that would like to tap into any more of my resources, I have tons of resources on my blog, keithrosencom, and please connect with me on LinkedIn and, of course, on Twitter. There's a newsletter I have that you can sign up for, where I'm always sharing different tools for leaders and salespeople and, of course, things that affect our life balance. Right, because that's the one thing that we all struggle with is maintaining that life balance. What's interesting, people really don't have a time management problem. What they really have is a priority management problem. So, in closing, I'd like to share my final thought of every company's universal philosophy, and here it is. People create the mindset, it shapes behavior, behavior defines culture, and culture determines success. That is why the primary initiative, the primary goal of every manager is to make their people more valuable.

Jennifer: 39:28

Well, that is certainly a great way to sign off on this very informative podcast. Keith, thank you so much. I know you're a busy guy and taking time out of your schedule to join us has really been a highlight for me particularly and, cassie, I know same for you. You're busy out there moving growth solutions forward, so thank you for taking time out of your day to join the podcast as well. Finally, I want to thank all of you for taking time out of your busy day. I know that is sometimes really challenging to do, but thank you for plugging into our podcast and from me and the entire chat team, stay safe and well and thanks for all you do.